Interviews The David Richardson Interview with Tony Fyler

 

Expanding Fictional Universes into Audio. 

Big Finish Productions has long been a prime player in expanding the universes of Doctor Who, Torchwood, and a whole range of other shows in audio drama. Tony Fyler spoke to the company’s Senior Producer, David Richardson, about what it takes to successfully expand those worlds. 

Where does the spark come from in terms of expanding a TV universe into audio? Are you always looking for places in the story where expansions could happen? Places where expansions could be profitable? Or is it usually a case of “I would really like to hear what happened to…”? 

David: I’d say, without exception, the spark always comes from the original TV episodes. The characters that have been given their own spin-off ranges have earned them because their TV stories suggested a life before the Doctor arrived, and also suggested they have a life after he left. 

That’s true of Jago and Litefoot, and the Counter-Measures team, and also Lady Christina and The Paternoster Gang. I have to say we never, ever start with a conversation that goes ‘What can we do that will make lots of money?’ I can’t recall a single pitch that started that way. It always begins with excitement, the chat about ‘We’ve got this idea and it’s really got us excited’. We’re fans of Doctor Who and Torchwood ourselves, so if it’s an idea that turns our heads, that gets us excited, then that’s usually a good sign. 

In a business where creativity and profitability both have their place, where’s the breakdown for you, and which is the leader – the satisfaction of creativity or the knowledge that an expansion of a universe will sell (while of course making loads of fans happy!)? 

David: Every series must pay for itself - absolutely it must cover its costs, and earn its place in the catalogue. But we are firm believers that creativity brings success - that quality work will find an audience. Over the 14 years that I’ve been working here, whenever we announce a spin-off there’s always someone on social media who sighs and says ‘A spin-off too far’. 

I saw it levelled against Jago and Litefoot all those years ago, and that series has become one of our most enduring hits! I’m not convinced there is such a thing as a spin-off too far in this modern age of multiple series linked storytelling. Story, characters, dialogue rule - that’s what matters. 

What’s your favourite expansion of a universe Big Finish has done so far? What makes them your favourite? 

David: As Nicholas Courtney used to say, ‘The one I’m working with at the time.’ I always thought he was being diplomatic but actually, I can see that, as you gravitate from one series or group of actors to another, at that moment they become your favourite. But I do have a very powerful affection for Jago and Litefoot, because the pairing of Trevor Baxter and Christopher Benjamin was just beautiful. Every day working with them was a day well spent - we just laughed, all the time. We got the work done, and the recordings were brilliant, but every moment between every take was just filled with banter and kind spirits and joy. I sit here talking about it with a smile on my face and tears welling in my eyes - I was just so lucky to be a part of it. 

Without necessarily giving away spoilers (though you should naturally feel entirely free if you like…), is there a universe you haven’t got to expand yet, but really hope to in the future? Do you have a list, and if so, what’s on it that you can safely tell us about? 

David: There are always ideas, things I’ve got on my list of things I’d love to do - and I know a lot of the other producers feel the same. Scott Handcock has pitched some smashing, exciting things which I hope one day might happen - they’re a series I would love to just sit and listen to myself. So I can’t give more details, but there are always ideas floating around. 

What’s the process like between having an idea for a new universe expansion and getting it into studio? Do you commission writers to write scripts on spec if you either need to acquire the rights or persuade key actors? Or is the legal side all nailed in place before the writers start writing? 

David: The process pretty much follows this pattern:
1: You have the idea, which the producer discusses with the script editor, and it’s written into a pitch.
2: That pitch is presented to Jason Haigh-Ellery and Nick Briggs. If they like it, then it’s green lit and a budget is agreed.
3: The producer and the script editor then discuss writers, who are given a brief (which can sometimes be quite prescriptive) and asked to pitch story ideas.
4: Story ideas, once agreed with the producer and script editor, then go to Nick Briggs for his comments and can be reworked from there. They then go to the BBC for approval. Once everything is signed off, we start working on scripts. 

Thinking in particular of things like the Ninth Doctor Adventures – Christopher Eccleston’s always been an actor motivated by great scriptwriting (and has mentioned Nick Briggs’ writing as a big draw), so were there scripts in place before he signed on to the project, or did you need to convince him on board and then knock his socks off with scripts?

David: Conversations with Chris were ongoing for some time, and we did reach a stage where he asked to see a script. Nick wrote some example pages, which if I recall rightly were the first 40 pages or so of Ravagers, episode one. 

Chris loved it, and we were away.

Hand on heart, I have absolutely loved working with Chris. I’m just so blown away by his energy and passion for what he does - and the kindness with which he treats those around him. Those 12 recording days were some of the happiest, and he threw himself into every script and was always, always full of praise for the efforts of our writing team. 

Similarly, when getting the daughters of famous companion actresses on board (Sadie Miller, Daisy Ashford, etc), do you get scripts written to persuade them in, or does Big Finish’s reputation do a lot of that work for you?

David: We didn’t present scripts to Sadie and Daisy - but they have worked with us before in other roles, so knew Big Finish and the people well. It was a difficult decision to recast those roles, made easy when Sadie and Daisy came on board. 

You have quite a pool of familiar writers you know can deliver at Big Finish, but you’re also frequently bringing in new talents. At what point do names get attached to stories? Is it a case of “I’d really like to hear a River Song story written by [to pick a name at random] Lizbeth Myles, or a Lady Christina story by Sarah Grochala,” or do you get as far as outlines and briefs before thinking of who could do interesting things with them?

David: It’s usually down to availability. People get busy. I mean, I want to work with Lisa McMullin on EVERYTHING, but her TV career is really taking off, and there are only so many scripts she can take on. The same goes across the board. Obviously, some writers are a better fit for some series - writers with great comedy talents are a natural for Missy; writers with strong dramatic flair fit well into Stranded. But there’s huge crossover as well. Someone like Roy Gill can really do anything you throw at him. We’re lucky to have them all. 

Is there ever a set-in-stone idea of what you want to achieve from a universe expansion, beyond the telling of good stories, or is that the be-all and the end-all – to tell good stories with the particular characters you’re expanding? After all, Big Finish is credited with ‘rehabilitating’ the Sixth Doctor after his on-screen mellowing wasn’t given the time to mature. Is that sort of thing part of the goal for some ranges – to broaden people’s perception of characters over time – or is it more a case of plotting out the arc of three or four boxsets in a range at a time and seeing the journey on which they take you before deciding what’s next for the characters? 

David: I don’t think that our agenda is that set-in-stone. We work ahead a bit - for example, I was pitching the story world for Stranded when we were about halfway through the previous Eighth Doctor series, Ravenous. We needed to know where we were going. But it’s always down to telling good stories, and being in an interesting storytelling world. 

And you never know if people are going to buy into it. The basic idea with Stranded was to start with Doctor Who with much of what makes the series Doctor Who taken out. It was my idea, and then I spent months in turmoil because I was terrified people might not buy into that. And yet it became a huge hit, because it was something different. And we got an Audie Award for it - a massively prestigious award. But it had great scripts and such an amazing cast - how could it fail? 

What excites you most about starting a new universe expansion?

David: Those first few weeks, when you are all throwing ideas around and all the creative voices in the team add into the mix, and it snowballs into something wonderful… that’s just so brilliant. I’m a great believer in team working. Everyone should have a voice.

For example, on The Paternoster Gang, I know the three leads are really invested in it and have their own ideas, so every series starts with a meeting where Neve, Catrin and Dan throw ideas out there. And lots of them get used - it’s a really rewarding process.

Forgive me this one – my writing pals at Project Torchwood wanted me to ask “How do you get such great writers all the time?” and also “Is there ever any chance of fan writers working for Big Finish?” – which I think means besides the Paul Spragg competition, is there a potential pathway for ‘fan’ writers to becoming Big Finish writers? 

And also, I guess, how does it work in terms of writers for particular universes? Are there writers that you instantly know you can go to for, say, a Third Doctor story that will take that range forward, or writers who can always be relied on to turn out a cracking Torchwood? Any strict rhyme or reason, or, as you have a good range of writers at your disposal, does it come down to an instinct of who will do well within a particular universe, or with a particular story brief?

David: It’s a good question. We have an ongoing dilemma in that we always need new writers because we’re so busy, but because we’re so busy we have limited time to develop new writers. And ‘develop’ is the key word here - all scripts can go through many rewrites and changes and tweaks, which is a time-consuming process and the writers work closely with our brilliant script editors. 

So someone relatively new to the audio writing can take a lot of the script editor’s time. So we have to limit the intake of fresh writing talent - and we seek that out ourselves. We just don’t have the infrastructure in place to have a formal free submissions system.

The best tip for anyone who wants to write Doctor Who is to keep writing and writing and writing. 

And I think the best Doctor Who writers don’t just want to write Doctor Who - they want to write all sorts of things, but Doctor Who is an important part of that. Get as much experience and set your sights as wide as you can. It’s a big audio industry out there, and there’s a lot to learn. 

Are there any universe expansions that are now officially never coming back? Any more Jenny on the way?* Second set of New Earth stories? Dan Dare? Similarly, any one-offs possibly in mind for future series? Shilling and Sixpence or the like? I’m guessing any plans for future Lives of Captain Jack releases are pretty much in abeyance right now? 

(*We asked, just before a second set of Jenny adventures was announced(!)) 

David: I mean, Jago and Litefoot is now sadly over, because we lost dear Trevor Baxter. We reached a very good ending with Counter-Measures, and my feeling at the minute is I’d hate to undermine that ending by making more. But never say never. 

With Big Finish being the biggest player in the expanded universe of quite a few fandoms now, and with so many projects and universes on the go at different stages at any given time, is it ever tough to keep up with where each universe is in its story when you’re building the next instalment for it?

David: Not really - I just ask Matt Fitton! The man is a Big Finish encyclopaedia! 

What are the biggest challenges you face when expanding a universe? How you decide on a tone that takes a universe forward, while still being recognisably similar to what the fans have loved about a universe before?

David: I’m not sure that retaining the tone is a challenge, really - that’s part of the joy of it. Finding the authenticity in any range is in our DNA - it’s what drives us. I’d say the biggest challenge for me is always confronting my own nerves - just making sure that everyone has a good time, because that then infuses the production. 

If I’m working with Alex Kingston for the first time, say, I want her to have such a great time that she will come back for more. When Christopher Eccleston steps through the door, I want him to feel ‘Hey, this is a lot of fun.’ Those are the things I worry about - the people. 

This one’s not a question, just an opportunity taken to say thank you, for all the universes that have improved fans lives – my life – immeasurably. I first came into Big Finish fandom by ‘taking a chance’ on Spare Parts (nothing like coming in on a high!). It’s been brilliant so far, and I’ve no doubt it will continue expanding universes – and minds – for decades to come. Thanks, David – and thanks to all who make it happen.

David: Ah, that’s lovely - thanks so much. Seriously, we’re so lucky to do what we do. And I’m so grateful to Nick Briggs who plucked me out of an unhappy job 14 years ago and offered me this role at Big Finish. We really make a lot of this stuff for ourselves and hope that other people like it - so the fact you do means a lot!